southern cross sailboat review

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• Margaret’s Blog
• Jeff’s Blog

Our Thoughts after Looking at the Southern Cross 31

Jeff: Overall, I thought the boat was in great shape, though it was not without its issues, but no boat is. Before I met Margaret, when I was actively saving for a bluewater boat but had not yet started seriously looking for the boat, I thought the Southern Cross would be the perfect boat for me; it was small, stout and capable, and rather inexpensive. After looking at Attitude , the SC31 in Georgia, I came away thinking this just may have been the boat – not just the design, but the actual boat – I would have bought had Margaret not come into my life.

Attitude aft starboard side

Jeff’s four:

1. The head needed some work. The current owner was using an effective but improper method of flushing the head and had a jug attached to the bottom of the head sink to catch the water going down it. While we could continue to use the head in the fashion the previous owner was, it would definitely be high on our list of things to fix. However, the fix was probably not all that expensive, just time consuming and potentially really icky (welcome to the more unseemly side of life on a boat).

Under the sink in the head

2. The winches were a bit old and tired. The winch for the main needed immediate servicing as it hardly turned. Beyond that, we would want to eventually replace all of the winches, starting with the two primaries (for the jib sheets), which were not self-tailing (self-tailing winches allows one person to easily use the winch by themselves, which is especially important on passage so that the on-watch crew is not always waking up the off-watch person to help trim the sails). The other winches could have been replaced over time, but in total we were still looking at a decent investment of money.

3. The electrical panels probably needed upgrading. I am sure the panels worked fine and could continue to serve their function long into the future. However, I looked at the (I think) three panels of various ages and states of repair and immediately wanted to replace them with a single, new electrical panel. This is another not too expensive repair that would probably involve a lot of labor because it would also lead to us replacing some of the wiring (which would not be a bad thing if it was needed).

Nav station

4. The two manual bilge pumps looked tired. There was a Whale bilge pump at the aft of the cockpit that looked like it had seen better days and an even more sad looking manual bilge pump near the mast step. Replacing them would have been relatively easy and inexpensive, but needed to be done for piece of mind.

I did not really see any other issues that needed to be immediately addressed. Of course, I am sure the survey would have turned up other concerns. All in all, I was very happy with her condition and thought she even showed a little better than the Yachtworld listing. In most cases, the various hoses, clamps, fittings, and wiring looked to be relatively new and well maintained. The bilge was clean. And the boat was stocked with replacement parts, had a very thorough maintenance log, and had obviously been well-cared for by the previous owner. If you are in the market for a Southern Cross, Attitude should be at the top of your list.

I should also point out that I was wrong in my last post about the boat. It does not have a SSB, but it does have a newish liferaft that does not need to be serviced until 2016. It also had a wind generator, two solar panels, radar, a Rocna anchor, and various other equipment that I failed to mention when we were driving towards Savannah.

solar panels and life raft

It was the first time I have been on a Southern Cross 31, and the visit confirmed my view that the boat has the potential to be a very capable offshore vessel. It was quite small, but was intimate and cozy with enough space to make it work. I know Margaret is going to comment on the size, so I will leave it at that and maybe save my thoughts about boat size for a separate post.

Finally, glancing over my last post, I am also feeling guilty about how I thought the broker was not going to be a big help. In actuality, Ron Barnett of Dunbar Yachts was incredibly kind and helpful. He provided tons of additional information, backing it up with documentation, and thoroughly answered our questions. He was also a hell of a nice guy. I would feel completely comfortable working with him on the purchase of a boat. And if I happened to be selling a boat somewhere in the area, I would make sure that Ron was the listing broker on the yacht. Dunbar Yachts is also conveniently located off I-95, so – as Ron indicated in passing – they tend to get a lot of traffic from boat shoppers heading north and south along the East Coast, making it a good place to list, in my humble opinion.

I have to admit that I was pretty excited to look at the SC31. The Yachtworld.com listing described a nicely accessorized boat, at a very reasonable price, that we could buy now. A boat at this price point would allow us to own a boat and keep our house – allowing me to learn to sail and get comfortable with the idea of cruising before my sabbatical year. This would not be the case for some of the other boats on our list. With that in mind, I really hoped this would be “the boat”. But sadly, it was not.

1. Size – From the dock this boat looked lovely – nice lines and well maintained for a 30+ year old boat. The cockpit was small, with no table and a homemade hard dodger. I’m not complaining about the small cockpit – I know this is important for seaworthiness, but it was so small I wondered how comfortable it would be to have dinner with another set of cruising friends aboard. But this was not my main concern. As I descended the companionway steps I was shocked by how small this boat felt compared to the Island Packet 31 that we chartered last year. I knew that Attitude’ s beam (width) was 2′ smaller, but I was not prepared for the difference that those 2′ would make in the salon. While Jeff said he thought it felt cozy, I thought it felt cramped and claustrophobic in its narrow belly. As the broker mentioned, and I have read numerous times, a small boat is safer in that you have less distance to travel should you be thrown across the boat by a crashing wave. There is also less distance for projectile objects to traverse, hence less velocity books, computers, and other such equipment will have when careening toward your head!

Looking aft from salon

While the idea of living aboard a small boat with my husband sounds intimate and adventurous, the reality is that we both need personal space occasionally. We also both enjoy entertaining and the small space of the SC31 would not be conducive to this idea. While the two settees would serve as adequate sea berths for us while on passage, we would not be able to host any visitors comfortably below, for a multi-day passage or for dinner. The space simply is too small.

2. Head – This is also a size issue. The head was so small that Jeff could not stand in this space and I am not even certain he could sit on the head without his knees hitting the bulkhead! There was no medicine cabinet and the drain under the floor led straight to the bilge – so no showering! This obviously could be fixed but I cannot imagine showering in a space this small – there would be nowhere to keep a dry towel!!!

3. Table – When it comes down to it, this is also a size issue. In a boat this narrow a fixed table means that one settee is useless unless the leaf of the table is up. If the leaf is not up there is not enough space for your knees to fit between the settee and the table. Essentially, with this table, you have a walkway of about 15 inches from the galley to halfway up the salon. I see this as uncomfortably cramped.

4. Storage – Ok, yes, you got me. This is about size too! To be fair, it was difficult to judge the full capacity of Attitude because many of her lockers and cubbies were full of spares. A good problem to have, but I could not picture where I would store my clothes, foulies (there was no hanging locker), photographic equipment, books, etc.. Jeff suggested we could store our clothes in the v-berth cabinets, but I don’t even think one sweater would fit in these small spaces. I also could not imagine where we would store enough food for a long passage – crossing an ocean requires a lot of canned goods – and therefore – a lot of space.

So, as I said before, this is not the boat that we will be buying. However, we both learned a lot from this experience, including the importance of beam size. The Island Packet 31 had a spacious salon with a table mounted to the bulkhead. This created much more sole and usable settee space. It also had far more storage behind and under the settee cushions, in two hanging lockers, and in the head and galley cabinets.

I am looking forward to getting on more boats and narrowing down the list of potential yachts we keep in a shared google doc. There are about a dozen yachts in Florida that we hope to check out. Stay tuned for additional posts about our adventures viewing these boats.

Below are additional images from our viewing – you may click on any photograph to get a larger size file:

Windvane mount

Propane storage on deck

Jeff opening salon hatch

Crazing topsides

6 Responses to Our Thoughts after Looking at the Southern Cross 31

I know Attitude very well. The previous owner, I believe his name is “Ray”, was quite the character and a bit of a fixture at the Town Docks in Manteo, NC where he lived aboard the boat. He seemed to take quite good care of her and I often saw him working on various projects. He said he was heading south for the winter and it was a bit of a surprise to see “Attitude” for sale on YW. I wonder what happened to ol’ Ray???? The boat has now disappeared from YW so I assume it must now be sold. Good luck with your search. I have a Cabo Rico 38. Great boat….

It is interesting to hear some of the back story on the previous owner. The broker had mentioned that the guy was headed south but stopped in and said he was done with the boat. Then he vacillated for a couple days before really putting it on the market. It sounded odd at the time, but now it seems even more curious. I would love to know more. We also noticed the boat had sold; it went sale pending about a week after we looked at it, which meant it had been on the market for 2-3 weeks. If you hear anything else about Ray or Attitude, please let us know!

I purchased Attitude from Ron and have done numerous repairs and upgrades on her. It was great seeing your write up. I have put her back on the market as I have a 5 month old that just takes up enough time that it’s not working for me. Attached is her link on a friend of mines website. http://atomvoyages.com/cys/355-for-sale-1979-southern-cross-31-cutter.html

So great to hear what happened to Attitude. It is a bummer that you have to sell her, but I am sure she will make somebody happy. Best of luck!

Attitude is up for sale again in Kemah Texas, I just seen it on YW, it doesn’t look as good I feel from the pictures on YW but some time has passed.

Thanks for the heads up. Seems like the previous owners made a few upgrades. But it is hard to be too sure because the listing is a little sparse. Regardless, that boat will certainly take someone anywhere. I think it was listed at 22k when we looked at her.

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• Sailboat Guide

Southern Cross 31

Southern Cross 31 is a 31 ′ 0 ″ / 9.5 m monohull sailboat designed by Thomas Gillmer and built by C. E. Ryder between 1975 and 1987.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

From BlueWaterBoats.org :

The Southern Cross 31 is a no nonsense double-ender designed by Tom Gillmer, a professor of naval architecture at the US Naval Academy. The design takes influence from shapes dating back to Colin Archer’s work nearly a century earlier, and the hull in many respects is similar the straight transomed Allied Seawind 30, an earlier Gillmer creation notable for being the first fiberglass boat to circumnavigate the globe. (The Allied Seawind 30 was successful enough to be updated to the Allied Seawind II)

She’s a full keeled sailboat with an outboard rudder and tiller combo, a configuration often praised for its simplicity and the cockpit is quite small, suitable for ocean passages. The cutter rig with bowsprit has 447 sq. ft. of canvas, plenty for its displacement, but being a heavy displacement boat performance is hampered in light airs. Looking on the bright side, the weight gains dividends with a comfortable motion while underway.

Two interior layouts were offered, one with a stand up navigation station over a large locker and one with quarter-berth. The overall construction quality was of a good standard, suitably strong for offshore work. The hulls were built in fiberglass with the topsides cored in Airex foam, while the deck and cabin house was cored in balsa.

In total 130 boats were built between 1976 and 1987, of which a number were sold as hull and deck kits. A slightly larger and similar Gillmer design is the Aries 32 (around 20 of these were built).

Links, References and Further Reading

» Southern Cross Owners Association » Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere by John Vigor , (Ch19, p117-123) an in depth look at the Southern Cross 31. ISBN:978-0939837328 » Ryder Yachts

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First Boat-31' Southern Cross or 27' Hunter

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I'm new to sailing and have my eye on two boats that I can get next to nothing. A 31' Southern Cross, Hull #89 which will take quite abit of work to restore or a 1984 27' Hunter that can be ready to sail with minor cleaning and repair. There's alot of info on Hunter's, some people love them, others hate them. I'm really looking for advise on the SC, doesn't seem to be many out there. Good boats? Ok for starting sailor? Are they manufactured hulls or kits? etc. Any and all info on SC and/ or advice-opinion of the Hunter vs. SC for 1st boat is most appreciated.  

The main point is you're talking two different kinds of boats.  

Do you want to sail or do you want to work on a boat? Forget (for a little while) about the differences between the two boats (and there are lots!). If you want to start sailing now, buy the Hunter, do what you have to do, and START SAILING. If you decide to buy the SC, make a list of what needs to be done to make it ready for sailing, double the cost, triple the time, and go for it! After you have sailed for a year or so you will have a much better idea of what kind of boat you want. Maybe the Hunter will be it, maybe not. Either way, since you can get the boat for next to nothing it won't cost much. Good luck, Barry  

Expand response Could you elaborate? As I'm new to sailing I'm not sure what you mean. Two diffent boats as in difficulty in sailing, quality, maintenance , etc.?  

as different as a chevy nova and a dodge one ton pickup. when you say "next to nothing" theres a reason why. typically the cost to make them seaworthy exceeds the marketable value, (even if you do ALL of the work yourself) if you could, rip off a sheet with what the obvious issues are, we'll be sure to shoot down your dreams... just kidding, there isn't a one of us here that doesn't want other people to share our joy and passion. Leave the cuban out of this (inside joke)  

Differences between Southern Cross and Hunter 27. Here are some ripped off remarks on the Southern Cross: The Southern Cross 31 is a double ended full keel cutter capable of extended offshore passages. Designed by Thomas Gillmer & built & factory finished with options in Rhode Island by C.E. Ryder. This model is well known for quality construction, outstanding offshore capabilities. She is the perfect choice for a cruising couple on a budget searching for a blue water yacht that can take them anywhere..... The Hunter is a 'coastal cruiser' meaning that it designed for day sails, weekend trips, or longer, but not more than a fwe hours from safe harbor. The Hunter will be easier to sail and more responsive due to being a sloop (one head sail) instead of a cutter (two head sails) and having a fin keel instead of a full keel. As previously written, think of the Hunter as the Chevy Nova - good for basic transportation. Nothing fancy, good for running to the grocery store. Not real strong. The SC is the heavy duty pick up. Capable, strong, powerful, but not so good for short trips. Good luck, Barry  

If you want to dink around the coast, go for the Hunter. I wouldn't, because there are better coastal boats for quality and seaworthiness in my mind. But if it's a matter of getting off the dock and learning to sail, it's adequate. If you want a boat you can grow into, however, pick the Southern Cross. It won't go as fast as the Hunter in club racing, but after club racing gets boring, you could transit the Atlantic in it. A light-air champ it isn't, admittedly, but if you ever ride in a Hunter in a squall and ride in an SC, you'll appreciate the difference. I suspect that if you get the Hunter as a first boat, you'll go to a Catalina and then to a Beneteau. If you got the SC, you might go to a Pacific Seacraft and then, if you got rich, to a nice big J/Boat. It's a sort of philosophy of sailing idea, I guess. The last thing is that a beat-up SC is probably worth fixing up, because it will always find a buyer (unless survey says it's truly, deeply compromised as opposed to merely neglected/dirty/crusty), whereas a Hunter 27 is a "throwaway" to anyone beyond the weekend inshore daysailer...and it's a little small for even that these days.  

I say get the ocean boat, the SC. Then when you're coastal sailing and a storm hits, you have the option of heading offshore, away from the dangers of land. With the Hunter you have only one choice, head for shelter and hope the harbor entrance isn't too dangerous by the time you arrive , or it's pitch black.  

gentryd said: I'm new to sailing and have my eye on two boats that I can get next to nothing. A 31' Southern Cross, Hull #89 which will take quite abit of work to restore or a 1984 27' Hunter that can be ready to sail with minor cleaning and repair. There's alot of info on Hunter's, some people love them, others hate them. I'm really looking for advise on the SC, doesn't seem to be many out there. Good boats? Ok for starting sailor? Are they manufactured hulls or kits? etc. Any and all info on SC and/ or advice-opinion of the Hunter vs. SC for 1st boat is most appreciated. Click to expand...

The SC series of boats have proven themselves capable of circumnavigations. Donna Lange is in the process of completing one in her SC 28. The two boats are very different, as the other posters have said here, and I think you really need to figure out what you want to get the boat for. The Southern Cross 31 is a full-keel bluewater boat. It is going to be far heavier than the Hunter, and probably far slower, given the same conditions. However, in rough seas, the Southern Cross will likely be far more forgiving. I wouldn't recommend getting a Southern Cross 31 as your first boat. Especially not one that isn't is ready-to-sail-away shape. Many new boat owners get a "fixer-upper" and get discouraged at all the work, since the boat isn't often sailable. You also don't say what you intentions are for the boat, or what your budget is. If you don't have at least $7-10,000 set aside to fix up the Southern Cross 31, then don't even bother looking at it. Don Casey says in his book This Old Boat, that many boat buyers generally pick the wrong boat as their first boat, and the lessons they learn from buying their first boat often mean that their second boat is one that they end up keeping for years, since they have learned what they are really looking for in a boat by then. Older Hunters, with some exceptions, can be questionable in quality. It would help more if you said what vintage 27' Hunter you were looking at. One other point on the Southern Cross... most of their boats had cored hulls, and if not properly maintained, run the risk of core breakdown and delamination. If your goal is to learn more about sailing, and to have a boat you can daysail, and coastal cruise in for upto about a week at a time, then, I'd say get the Hunter. If you want to sail around the world or across an ocean, and are looking to get a boat that you can make into the perfect boat for doing so for yourself, and are willing to spend the next year or more modifying it and restoring it...then get the Southern Cross 31. As a general rule, with used boats, it is often far more economical to buy one that is in sailable shape than to buy a comparable boat that is not and refurbish it. The price difference is often just a small fraction of what the refitting or repairing would cost.  

A 31 foot sailboat in good condition costs a minimum of $50,000.00 You can pay it several ways..all upfront when you buy a boat in decent condition, half and half buying something that is okay but needs work, or nothing at the front end and spending the other $47,500.00 over the following twelve months. But sooner or later - you are going to spend it. So if you don't have 50K to spend over the next twelve months, you can't afford the Southern Cross. Also, I am honestly not trying to offend you, but if you are at a level of experience where you are not aware of the differences between the Hunter anad the Southern Cross, then you are not ready for one. There is a lavyer of balsa between the inner and outer fibreglass skins of the boat. If it is cheap, it is likely that there is a problem there, and unless you've beeen working on boats for a while, you don't have the expertise to repair it properly. Get the Hunter - have a great time, learn to sail and run aground a few times. If you maintain it and even upgrade it a little you will always be able to sell it for what you paid for it.  

The Hunter is 1984, cabin, deck and hull pretty good shape but does need bottom job. Also needs front hatch. Has running Renault 8 Hp deisel and comes with 3 sails. Can pick up for $1500.00, can probably pick up SC around same price but you're right, alot of time and money.  

The SC31 must be in really rotten shape. Ones in good condition list for about $30,000, and sell for probably about $22-26,000, depending on their condition and what equipment is on them. A mid-1980s Hunter is probably a boat I'd want to avoid. That was the time period that had gained Hunter much of its reputation for making really flimsy and shoddy boats. Getting a keelboat that is longer than 26' for less than $10,000 is generally going to be a boat in pretty bad shape, that either needs a lot of work or has serious structural issues.  

sailingdog said: Getting a keelboat that is longer than 26' for less than $10,000 is generally going to be a boat in pretty bad shape, that either needs a lot of work or has serious structural issues. Click to expand...

Valiente said: A friend of mine got a late '70s Pearson 30 in good shape for $10K last season and shipped it from Conn. to Toronto. He's got fresh sails and a few odds and ends, put in a new head (the wife was squeamish) and spent about $3000 in total getting it right. So it *can* be done...but you've got to be really picky. As his last boat was a late '60s 24 foot Shark, he's over the moon with all that wide open space and 5' 10" headroom Click to expand...

$1500.00 is read right, basically paying past due slip fees, guy just wants out of it. My inquiry was on SC boats as there's not alot out there, Said I was new to sailing, not to boating. Been on saltwater boats all my life and have totally redone 2 fiberglass boats. Don't know sailboats, but do know boats. Thought I'd square that up as some responses lead to the perception that I'm ignorant to boating altogether. I do appreciate all the responses, they have been most helpful  

Sailormann- The coring in the hull of the Southern Cross boats isn't balsa, IIRC, it is cored with Airex, which was IIRC a PVC-based foam. I believe the decks were cored with end-grain balsa, rather than the Airex material. Also, many of the Southern Crosses may have been owner finished, but some were factory finished. They may be slow, but they're very solid boats, if they were properly maintained, and are reasonably priced for a bluewater capable boat. Pat Henry circumnavigated in her SC31, and Donna Lange is about to finish a circumnavigation in an SC28. Not too many other boats can compete for the price, size and value. One major advantage the Southern Cross has as a cruising boat is that the cabin temperature tends to be a bit easier to control thanks to the cored hull and deck. Also, it tends not to have the condensation problems in cooler weather than a solid fiberglass boat will have. The Elizabethan 31 and the Hallberg-Rassy Monsun are two others that are about the same size and value, and with about the same capabilities.  

Does anybody know if there's a way to find out if the hull was factory finished or kit by the hull #. I'm really thinking now I should get them both. Dry dock the SC for a couple of years and take my time with her, and learn the sailing ropes on the Hunter until I finish the SC  

I''m sort of a newbie but for the money if you can't make up your mind and have the room get them both. Sail the Hunter while you spet the next few years tinkering with the SC. Just don't try to make them both bristol. spend the money and time on the SC and wear what liitle there is of the hunter out while you sail it. But like i said i am a newbie P-27  

While i was typing you where reading my mind. Get out of there. I know where it's been and you don't want to go there  

Good idea - get both !  

Don't waste your time with the hunter IF you want to end up with the SC....I'm still trying to sell my Pearson 26 after buying it only 10months ago, after deliberating over the same process. There is no comparison between the 2 boats. The SC feels like a big ship compared to the Pearson. The difference in size is huge between the 2 boats. The SC has 6'3 headroom, I can't even stand up in the Pearson. I just cut the cabintop off of the SC to re-core it. Don't listen to anyone who tells you you can't do it on your own..and the materials are pretty cheap! Have the hull thoroughly checked for delamination though! I would really sit down and check out the 2 boats....you'll see the difference.  

Old hunters can be alot of work too! So you might be buying 2 projects, not a sail now boat and a project boat. If you work hard it should't take more than a year (maybe less) to finish the SC...just sail with buddies until then!  

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