docking twin rudder sailboat

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Docking a dual rudder sailboat.

Dual rudders, also referred to as twin or double rudders, are becoming more and more common in modern sailboats, both cruising and performance yachts alike. Since dual rudder boats handle differently than single rudders when maneuvering under engine power, it’s important for our charterers to know which boats in our fleet have dual rudders and to understand differences in the way they handle in tight spaces like dock slips and narrow fairways.

First, let’s have a look at the advantageous reasons dual rudders are becoming popular in modern boat design, as well as the challenges they can present to the uninformed. We’ll then give you some tips to help you get prepared for successful maneuvering in and out of the marina.

Dual Rudder Advantages

• To make for roomier cockpits and more space below deck for accommodations and storage, design trends are leaning toward wider transoms. Dual rudders improve the handling of a boat with a wide transom.
• Dual wheels accompany dual rudders, which means a more open cockpit layout and better visibility for the driver on the helm.
• Dual rudders facilitate better tracking. When the boat is heeling, there is always one rudder in the water, which means better control and a reduced tendency to round up.
• The propeller lies forward and between the twin rudders rather than in line with a single rudder. This means there will be no prop walk effect when backing up in reverse.

Dual Rudder Challenges

• Bow thrusters can help compensate in difficult conditions, but before you attempt to use bow thrusters, focus on learning how to dock without them first, and be sure to read this article: Bow Thruster Basics 

Twin Rudder Dual Rudder versus Single Rudder Modern Sailing.png

Boats with Dual Rudders in the Modern Sailing Fleet

Helix  (Beneteau Oceanis 30.1), Traharta  (Beneteau Oceanis 35)  Survivor  (Beneteau Oceanis 38),  Liberty  (Beneteau Oceanis 38.1),  Ry Whitt , (Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409) and Attitude Adjustment (Beneteau Oceanis 41) are equipped with twin rudders and helms. Survivor and Liberty also have bow thrusters.

Tips for Docking a Dual Rudder Boat

Departing the Dock Slip

IMPORTANT: With a single rudder, when you apply a quick burst of throttle, prop wash over the rudder allows you to steer the boat without needing to accelerate. With dual rudders, you’ll need a longer burst to accelerate the boat enough to steer.

• If you need to turn your stern to starboard to head left out the fairway, then turn the wheel to starboard. This applies to B Dock boats Helix , Traharta , Survivor , and Liberty . 
• If you need to turn your stern to port to head right out a fairway, turn the wheel to port. On A Dock boats Ry Whitt and Attitude Adjustment , back up straight, and once sufficiently clear from the dock, turn away from shore to avoid nearby shallow areas. (Rocks - ouch!)
• You’ll need to use your best judgement to determine how far to turn the wheel – it will depend on the wind and current.

Let's imagine you're backing Traharta out of her slip on B Dock. Put the engine in reverse gear and apply a bit more throttle than you normally would on a single rudder boat. Keep the boat as straight in the slip as possible as you begin to back up. When the boat is 3/4 of the way out of the slip, turn the wheel to starboard, shift the engine into neutral gear and allow the boat to glide backwards into your starboard turn. When clear of the dock, turn the wheel to port, put the engine in forward gear, and slowly increase throttle as you head out of the fairway. 

While you're out on the water, we highly recommend you take some time to practice maneuvering a dual rudder sailboat in a safe area like an unoccupied mooring field. (Of course, always check the charts before entering an unfamiliar area to ensure adequate depth.) You can use mooring balls or buoys as points of reference as you get a feel for how the boat maneuvers. Be sure to give plenty of room for error around fixed objects. You’ll especially want to practice slowing the boat to get a feel for the speed at which it loses steerage. This will help you to better judge the minimum amount of speed you'll need to maintain control of the boat as you maneuver.

Entering the Dock Slip

Heading down the fairway and approaching the dock, once again, you’ll need a bit more momentum than you would in a single rudder boat. As you begin to turn toward the dock slip, don’t slow down too much or you could lose steerage and miss. Maintain momentum until you have completed the turn and the boat is aligned with the slip. When you enter the slip, at the last moment, reverse the engine and throttle up to stop the boat. Because you entered the slip with more momentum than you would on a single rudder boat, you’ll also need to apply more RPMs to stop the boat. Again, use your best judgement on how high to throttle up based on the conditions.

Want More Training?

Here's some of the ways you can get docking practice and training with one of our experienced instructors:

• ASA 118, Docking Endorsement Clinic
• Platinum Fleet Dockkng & Maneuvering Clinic
• Development Sails
• Private Lessons

Need Help at the Dock?

Whenever you find yourself approaching a docking situation that feels uncomfortable for you (such as in a strong wind), it's always okay to ask for help. Call the Modern Sailing team on VHF radio channel 71 if you would like some help with a slip-line departure or dock entry. Please be aware that only our licensed and certified instructors are qualified to provide docking instruction, but a fleet team member standing on the dock can help you cast off or catch your lines as you depart or come in. We're happy to help!

Did you find this article helpful? See our Member Resources library for more like it.

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• Q&A, Coming Alongside (Docking) With Twin Rudders

I have a boat with twin rudders and a single propeller on centre line. Will your docking techniques in this Online Book work for me and, if not, what should I do?

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More Articles From Online Book: Coming Alongside (Docking) Made Easy:

• Introduction to Coming Alongside (Docking) Online Book
• 10 Tips to Make Coming Alongside (Docking) Easy
• Coming Alongside (Docking) in 4 Easy Steps
• Rigging The Spring That Makes Docking Easy, Or an Alternative
• 10 Ways to Make Your Boat Easier to Bring Alongside a Dock
• Coming Alongside (Docking)—Manoeuvring in Close Quarters
• Coming Alongside (Docking)—The Final Approach
• Coming Alongside (Docking)—Taming the Wind
• Coming Alongside (Docking)—Backing In, Part 1
• Coming Alongside (Docking)—Backing In, Part 2
• Q&A Backing Out of a Bow-In Med Moor
• 14 Tips for Coming Alongside Single-handed—Part 1
• 14 Tips To Come Alongside Single-Handed—Part 2
• Leaving a Dock Against an Onshore Wind—Part 1
• Leaving a Dock Against an Onshore Wind—Part 2
• Going Alongside (Docking) in Current—Fundamentals
• Going Alongside (Docking) in Current—Turning in Confined Spaces
• Going Alongside (Docking) in Current—Backing In
• Going Alongside (Docking)—12 More Tips and Tricks

Hi John I have an Ovni 445 with twin rudders. I agree with you for the usefulness of a bow thruster , but also of the Maxprop propeller. I can turn the boat in one side “in her lenght” with the propeller only , when the wind is light (big windage…) KR

That’s good news, indicating that twin rudders retain more prop walk than I feared. That said, I still think that a bow thruster is a good idea for these boats because of the lack of prop wash. (With prop wash I think you would be able to operate without a thruster even in higher winds, although that said, lifting keel boats can be challenging to dock.)

I’m hoping that you’ll cogitate, perhaps even ruminate, on coming along side with a heavy current, perhaps even one that’s in opposition to the wind. If you’re interested in more specificity – we back our 45 foot Norseman along about 275 feet of before getting to our section of dock. The marina is in the mouth of a river that when the tide is going out gives us a 3 knot current pushing off the dock. The fairway is about 65 feet wide.

Hi Dartanyon,

Wow, that’s challenging! I will give it some deep cogitation.

When we had our 55 foot Aluminium lift keel boat designed the designers informed us that due to our request to have a minimum draft of 1,5 meters we had to have twin rudders…For the reasons obvious I was mordicus against it given the crowed entrances to locks and harbours in the Netherlands. They than came up with the solution to fit a, much smaller, third rudder behind the propellor. Jefa had done this a few times before and they designed the rudder geometry. We now sailed 15000 Nm in four seasons and are very happy with this configuration although it’s more complicated and costly… And yes we also have a bow thruster but only have to use it in unfavourable windy conditions.

That’s interesting and good to hear it works. Like you, the complications would worry me, but then boats are all about tradeoffs and it sounds like you have balanced yours well.

Hi Douwe, is it the wonderful ship Stayer you are writing about?

Hi Svein, Yes it is… hopefully you and your wife are well and we can meet again in the near future!

Hi Douwe, we are fine sailing in Denmark in our small double- ender hoping to get home in the North before the sea ice close our harbour. I believe Stayer represent a new positive development in yacht construction with her tree rudders and many other solutions. I have observed Stayer enter rather difficult harbors in Loften and docking elegantly without using trusthers. However the rigg of Stayer is very tall. How is Stayer to handle when docking in much wind? When I saw her there was no wind. I have observed that Stayer is extremely fast when sailing off-shore. Is she also comfortable off-shore? To mee Stayer seems like a unique modern construction: Good in shallow coastal waters, but also a fine long distance sailor. We would like to meet you again and discuss you experiences with Stayer.

For those considering a bow thruster, check out a Yacht Thruster. It’s an external unit, easy to install and able to be run for long durations because the motor is underwater-no overheating issues. It’s not speed robbing like a tunnel and requires one hole the size of a typical thru-hull. I was skeptical at first about having this torpedo shaped device hanging from the hull. But after three years, no complaints. One benefit, if the next owner doesn’t want it, it can easily removed and hole faired in a jiffy.

That’s interesting, although I have to say that the thought of adding such a thing to a hull that was not initially designed for it, particularly structurally, worries me a lot.

Just to be clear for everyone else, I’m not advocating for bow thrusters and in fact don’t recommend them, except for very special situations like twin rudder boats.

your observing that dual rudders are becoming more commonplace makes me wonder why ad this defeats the k i s s principle so important with sail craft especially…is also just that much more to incur damage…i think more than the std single rudder is jst asking for trouble

Hi Richard,

I agree. We are not fans of twin rudders here at AAC.

My limited experience with twin rudder boats has highlighted a few things for me.

Like most boats, you can usually get the stern into the wind even if it is against the direction of prop walk. Once you are in this orientation, it is relatively stable even without prop walk to help. I use this trick a lot on full keel boats and it works reasonably well here as well.

Backing down fairways can be a better bet as it makes changing direction easier and these boats usually back just fine. By getting steerage up in reverse out in the open, you deal with the harder to control direction change (assuming it is not a tailwind) out there.

Twin rudders is really unforgiving for people who drive as if they are using an outboard. It is crucial that you steer for the direction of water flow across the rudder and not whatever the engine is doing (this seems to be an issue for a lot of people based on my informal observation).

I learned something new in our single screw single rudder boat that should have been obvious a few weeks ago. I was trying to turn around our 36′ boat in an ~50′ wide creek that was turning hard to the left with the current behind us. I started my usual back and fill turn to starboard for our prop walk and the boat didn’t seem to want to turn. I then realized that the current on the outside of the turn was going faster so I switched to a port turn and the boat went around really easy despite being against the prop walk.

Great tips, as always, thank you. I had not really thought about the importance of realizing that water flow over the rudder will be different from the way the prop is driving for some time after changing the latter. I will need to incorporate that in a couple of future posts, so thanks again.

Hi John As I do most of my sailing single handed, I am still crossing my fingers that you will make another video of you coming alongside singlehanded using the balanced-point aft running spring and tying everything off singlehanded. Please 🙂 Kind regards, Peter

That reminds me that I need to do a single handed chapter, will do. Not sure a video will help a lot since all you would see is me making lines fast instead of me. Not a lot of value. Rather I think we need to explore getting the first line ashore and the dangers of getting off a boat that’s in gear.

Anyway, cogitating now.

Looking very much forward to reading that chapter. Happy cogitating ?

Hi John, did you already come around to that “single handed chapter”? I’ve just searched AAC and couldn’t find one except preparing for a singlehanded atlantic crossing?

Not yet. I plan to get back to docking this summer, now that I have MC back in the water.

Hi all, on two delivery trips with french raceboats (Archambault 35) I found that these boats -twin rudders, very wide stern- really ask for being backed into their slots. As Eric mentions, they are backing very well pretty much regardless of wind direction. Position one crewmember at the docking side of the pushpit, get a line ashore and power forward to pull the boat alongside. Works really well because of the wide transom and the resulting good leverage. The challenge comes when singlehanded, you have to be quick as the distance from tiller to the boat’s corner is rather long on this type of boat.

That makes sense. Another data point for my backing in chapter, thanks.

Hi John and Douwe, On my brothers sail boat Flyer, where the prop is maybe 20ft forward from the rudder, I guess he would love to have a small 2nd rudder just behind the prop. When we recently hauled out my motorboat, was surprised to see the (large)rudders could only swing 60 degrees from side to side, while the rudder indicators show about 100 degrees and yet it handles very well in tight spaces. During my hi-school summer hollidays I worked on river Rhine barges, single prop and two rudders about 3 ft apart, but could turn the rudders close to 180 degrees. No bow thrusters in those days, but did have a bow (balanced) rudder that could be lowered and handled with a long tiller. As you know, now the maneuvring is (greatly?) enhanced with articulated rudders. Has that system found its way on pleasure boats? Rene

Your focus is on larger boats with inboards. As multihull sailor, even the larger cats I’ve sailed or owned have always been outboard powered. With twin screws that far apart you have a whole world of tricks that I’m not going to get into. Some have had single engines. And what all of these have in common is trivial prop walk and no flow over the rudder.

But many small boats with outboards have something else they forget about all the time. The thrust can be directed by turning the motor. Unlike power boats, they have a rudder that works without prop wash.

One handy trick, say coming alongside on port, is to turn the rudder to starboard (tiller to port) while turning the engine to port and bumping reverse. The result is that the boat goes mostly sideways, slowly coming to a stop just touching the dock. Quite handy on a bulkhead with boats fore and aft.

There are other variations.

So true. The most manoeuvrable boat I have ever handled was a 28′ power cat with twin outboards. Even with a disabled 35′ sailboat lashed alongside I was able to work her into a tight marina and drop the sailboat off with no issues at all.

I have concern that the balance point spring aft method may not work like it would with a single screw/single rudder vessel. In a normal setup the prop wash over the rudder and the rudder angle dictates where the bow and stern go when you are pivoting on that spring. A twin rudder will only be able to push ahead on that spring and not control any direction of bow/stern. In my opinion, I think a further aft spring would help with keeping the boat pinned to a dock as there wouldn’t be as easy of a pivot. Once pressed to the dock other lines could be made off the the thrust left off.

Am I making sense with this? Just to be clear, I’m still suggesting a quarter point for a spring, but only a little more aft for a single screw/twin rudder yacht.

Thanks for the very detailed posts on this too, by the way! Hope your cruising has gone well this season!

Yes, of course you are right, the balance point spring won’t work nearly as well with twin rudders. I should have thought of that, thanks for pointing it out.

As to moving the spring further back, that will help in some cases, but in others, such as a hard offshore wind, I think it could be a problem since it would be difficult to get the bow in, and there’s a good chance that as the spring is loaded the stern will come in with a bang.

What will work, is the balance point spring and a bow thruster working together, so I think that you point reinforces my thinking that for twin rudder boats a thruster goes from being an undesirable complication to a requirement.

John, Good points, I didn’t think about a offshore howling you off. I do agree that a bow thruster is probably your only option.. Well, next to adding a third rudder or removing the two in lieu of one big one. I don’t think any of them is cheaper than the other once said and done.

Hi Ronnie and John,

I think that the magic spring line will still work well even without the help of prop wash. The thing that pulls the boat against the dock is the spring line itself (with a single rudder you can cheat and use prop thrust instead if the spring line has no angle to it) so the keys are getting an appropriate load on the line and having it pull in the correct direction. To get a load on it, you simply need to power against it, the more throttle you give it, the higher the load will be.

Getting the direction of the load correct is dependent on where each end of the line is attached to. Lines can only react tensile forces in line with them so the line needs to have an angle to the dock so that it can react your engine thrust and also pull the boat towards the dock. Too steep an angle and the stern will end up too far in, too shallow an angle and it will end up too far out (where the line is fore and aft also has a similar effect). For boats with shape like Morgan’s Cloud, you get a decent angle with a short spring that leads to a cleat right there on the edge of the dock. If the boat carries her beam aft, you might need to lead it to the far side of the dock finger to get some angle. Unless the boat is quite large, getting the exact right angle is not that big of a deal, you should be able to deal with a 10 or even 20 degree misalignment using fenders and by pulling on the bow and stern lines. The point is that you can hold yourself stationary indefinitely in approximately the position you want to be in while you sort out the other lines.

Even in the case where you have wind blowing hard off the dock and you start perpendicular to the dock stern-to, you should be able to get into place with this method, it will just take a minute. Because the line will be coming from the rail rather than centerline, there will be a torque when you motor ahead that will turn the boat so that the thrust will start to push the boat along the dock causing the spring line to pull you against it. In this extreme case, it is likely you won’t come in parallel so wide fender placement is critical.

That all makes sense and will be of comfort for twin rudder boat owners, thanks.

That said, I’m pretty sure that the “magic spring” will not be nearly as easy to use without prop wash on the rudder, as you allude to with your comment about fender placement.

In thinking about it, I’m guessing that the worst situation may be with the wind blowing hard onto the wharf. In this case with a single rudder we just steer hard away from the wharf to counteract the tendency (on most boats) for the bow to blow in and hit the dock hard as the boat comes in. On a floating dock this might not be too bad since the bow can land on a well placed fender, but on a high fixed dock the pulpit will be at risk and here, on a twin rudder boat, a burst from a bow thruster will be useful.

(I wouldn’t recommend a bow thruster for just this use, but given that twin rudder boats don’t have the benefits of prop wash in many other situations I guess I would stick with my recommendation in the post above.)

Hi John, Perhaps I missed it, but was hoping to find some hints in this book on docking related to a wind + current situation. We experienced this the other day and I made rather a mess of it…That’s no anchor roller, it’s a battering ram.! Wind was from ahead, current from astern , dock on port side. On retrospect i probably should have faced into the 2 kt. current rather than the 13 kt wind… thanks!

You remind me that I need to get back to this Online Book, probably be this summer.

On current, the key tip is that you can’t think of it like the wind. Unlike the wind, current does not pivot the boat in any way, but rather moves the entire boat. A good way to think about it is a model boat on a table with two people carrying the table: the motion of the table is the current.

So yes, in that situation it would be better to stem the current and have the wind on the stern. In fact, as I explain earlier in this online book, contrary what may people believe, it is actually far easier to dock a boat with the wind on the stern.

Dual Rudder: Maneuvering Under Power

Part of being a forward-thinking sailing education company includes constantly updating our material as a result of new developments, student feedback, and our own team’s experiences. Because, what’s one of the thousands of benefits of online sailing education? Courses can be updated without publishing an entirely new physical book. In other words, we can make sure that our information is up-to-date and serves our students well.

** Maneuvering Under Power UPDATE to include dual rudder monohulls **

Many newer boats have dual rudders, so we’ve updated our Maneuvering Under Power course to reflect this change. When a monohull sailboat has dual rudders, it will act differently than with a single rudder, so knowing what these differences are and how to manage them will save you a lot of headaches (and will keep you safer).

Ummm do I have a dual rudder monohull?

Don’t confuse dual helms with dual rudders! Dual helms do not necessarily mean dual rudders. You’ll have to either check the actual boat specs to see if it has dual rudders under the water or go for a swim and look!

Tip: This is a good thing to ask about if you’re chartering a sailboat internationally.

What’s the Advantage to a Dual Rudder?

When sailing, a dual rudder configuration offers several advantages over a single rudder. One of the main benefits is the increased rudder surface area in the water, which enhances maneuverability, control, and reduces the tendency to round up into the wind when hit by a gust. Additionally, it can improve the boat’s ability to sail upwind.

However, there is a trade-off: the boat becomes less maneuverable under power and during docking, which is when incidents are more likely to occur.

What is the main difference between maneuvering single or dual rudder monohulls?

Propeller wash over the rudder is a key consideration. In the case of single rudder monohulls, the rudder is positioned directly behind the propeller. As a result, when the boat’s engine is in forward gear, the wash from the propeller flows directly onto the rudder. This enables you to manipulate the boat’s stern in any desired direction without relying on the boat’s speed through the water—just by using the thrust of the prop wash.

With dual rudders, the propeller wash does not flow over the rudder, thus eliminating this maneuvering capability.

The absence of propeller wash makes it challenging to effectively utilize spring lines during docking because you cannot utilize the opposing force vectors between the rudder force generated by the prop wash and the dockline pulling the boat towards the dock.

From Maneuvering Under Power & Docking Course

Bow Thrusters with a Dual Rudder Sailboat

Most dual rudder boats have a bow thruster. This is essentially an electric motor that is mounted sideways under the water line at the bow of the boat. The bow thruster pushes water to one side or the other depending on how you need the bow to move. This makes maneuvering your boat a whole lot easier and gives you a lot more control.

BUT – as with anything on a boat, bow thrusters break. Do you have the inherent skills for maneuvering your dual rudder boat without the use of a bow thruster?

For more details (and our trademark animations to really make sure you understand), sign up for our Maneuvering Under Power course .

Become an Expert at Maneuvering

When it comes to maneuvering under power in a marina, no one wants the embarrassment of looking like an amateur. This is a comprehensive maneuvering course full of animations and tips and tricks. It is hands down the best maneuvering course in the world.

If you already have the Maneuvering Under Power course in your NauticEd curriculum, you can sign back in and gain access to this upgrade for FREE.

If you have not taken this valuable course, the $39 investment is guaranteed to save you money as well as prevent embarrassment.

Maneuvering a Catamaran

Are you still in the mood for learning about maneuvering boats in a marina/under power? Check out our recent post about maneuvering a catamaran in a marina or to a mooring ball. Obviously, catamarans are different than monohulls, so if you’re planning on sailing a catamaran (or if you’re just curious), check out the post at the link below.

Virtual Reality Sailing Courses!

One more thing. We’ve launched a virtual reality sailing course that really brings maneuvering under power to life. This is probably one of the sailing education lessons that people are the most hesitant to learn in real life, so we’ve found a way to make the gap between “book” knowledge and experience a little smaller and less intimidating.

Watch our introduction video to practicing in a marina in virtual reality.

Virtual Reality Sailing Course

Try Virtual Reality Sailing! Learn sailing knowledge and skills “hands-on” in fully immersive, 3D Virtual Reality with realistic physics. Available now on Meta Quest.

Start with 2 Free Sailing Courses

Sign-up and get 2 free courses and a free sailing eLogbook to build your sailing resume for charter companies worldwide.

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Docking a Handicapped Twin-Screw

• By Pete McDonald
• Updated: December 4, 2010

For some boaters, the key benefit of a twin-engine boat is the redundancy, and that’s a true advantage should one engine give out offshore. But in tight quarters — especially around a dock — a boat designed to maneuver with twins quickly becomes a liability if one engine fails.

Whether running dual outboards, stern-drives or poddrives, maneuvering can become quite a challenge with one engine out. But the effect is most dramatic in rudder-steered twin inboards, because rudder impact on the dead engine is nil and the running engine tends to steer by way of its unbalanced force.

With practice and preparation you can learn to use the adverse forces to your favor, minimizing stress and aggravation. Get the hang of how your boat responds by practicing with one engine in neutral. Chances are you’ll quickly learn that your best friend in this type of situation is a reversing propeller.

1. In this docking scenario, a twin-inboard vessel is hobbling into the marina with its starboard engine down. The port engine’s prop turns left-handed in forward, meaning the boat’s stern will naturally walk to port, pulling the bow to starboard. Reverse gears and this so-called prop walk will kick the stern to starboard and the bow to port. The boat needs to back into its slip, which is coming up on the starboard side. So slow the boat, gently bumping it in and out of gear. Take careful consideration of prevailing wind and current, and keep at least half a boat length away from the finger pier.

2. Once the pier is about amidships off the starboard side, begin executing your turn. Shift the engine into reverse with the wheel/rudder centered. Doing so not only will get the boat moving backward, but it will kick the stern to starboard while pulling the bow to port, slowly aligning the transom with the slip. Remember: Reverse is your friend in this type of situation, because a boat steers from the stern, and because aligning the stern is key to a successful docking.

3. The chances of lining up dead straight and stern-to on one maneuver are slim. To tweak your setup, leave the wheel/ rudder centered and toss the engine into forward, applying just enough thrust to create momentum so the boat travels in a straight line. Then toss it back into reverse to continue the turn. This back-and-forth process between forward and reverse may be repeated several times. Much as when maneuvering a shopping cart in a crowded grocery-store aisle, you will use alternate short bursts of forward and reverse to “back and fill” your way into the slip.

4. Once you’ve established the correct angle of attack, back in to the starboard side of the finger pier, ideally at an angle that leaves the stern slightly canted away from the dock to give some wiggle room, since the prop walk will tend to pull the stern in that direction. You’ve made it. Docking a dual-inboard boat on a single engine is not as difficult as it may seem. But it does require patience and practice to learn the fundamentals of how a boat responds to the force of propeller torque. Once you’ve learned that skill, you can build on it and begin using the rudder to fine-tune your approach.

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The Boat Docker

A Power Boat Docking Simulator

The Boat Docker Training

The following articles provide all of the information you need to know in order to operate The Boat Docker simulator.

Welcome to The Boat Docker

This simulator is designed to train you to dock your twin engine or single I/O power boat before you actually try it in the water! To get started, click above on “Run Simulator.” Thanks for all the feedback! We are continuously updating the simulator to make it a more effective tool. Please email your questions or […]

New Dock configuration

From: from Deniz Tok: Hello there. I just found out about your sim and I loved it! I can’t stop playing. I have a Searay 450 EB with twin engines and separated shifts & throttles. This sim makes great sense and really helps understanding the physics of the boat. Maybe only the wind physics differ […]

GamePad Bug Fix

Thanks to Roy Lewis for pointing out that the GamePad Controller software produces blank simulator screens in some devices. So, we have added a new menu item to either enable or not enable the GamePad Controller. The default setting is Not Enabled.

Added Gamepad support directly in browser

Hello Everyone, I once again added Gamepad support. This works for both wired and wireless Gamepads. Here is the mapping: B Button – Move Left Stern ThrusterA Button – Move Right Stern ThrusterY Button – Move Left Bow ThrusterX Button – Move Right Bow ThrusterL Button – Left Throttle UpR Button – Right Throttle UpZL […]

Using a Game Controller with Mac OS

From user Pete Harris: Love the simulator ! It’s great for developing muscle memory, so you can just focus on strategy when things get real. It was a bit daunting trying to figure out what game controller to buy, coupled with the worry I was wasting my time, and would not be able to get […]

Inbox Suggestion from user John Torkelson I am in the process of buying a 35 to 45 foot boat and need to make a decision on “do I need side thrusters or not?”.  Your simulator is great for helping me make that decision and I thank you for your effort.  I do have two suggestions for you.   […]

Updated Wind / Water Indicators

We updated the Wind and Water Indicators to improve the user experience. Just click on the + / – symbols to increase / decrease the wind / water speed. Then click on any circle to change the wind / water direction.

We have upgraded our URL to include a new SSL certificate. The new URL is https://theboatdocker.com ! Thanks.

This configuration was proposed by John who asked for a modification to the Man Overboard that would “Simulate backing down on a fish.”  The fish moves quite a bit faster than the Man Overboard, otherwise it operates the same. Click on the water to move the fish.

Rudder Effectiveness and Single I/O Prop Walk

Thanks to your suggestions we have added Rudder Effectiveness and Single I/O Prop Walk. You can now select low/medium/high rudder effectiveness from the start menu. Be sure to refresh your browsers on the menu page and then again on the simulator page. For a single I/O with an engine speed of 600 RPM, the engine […]

CRUISING TIPS: Docking

Here’s an excerpt of our recent article on boat handling for catamarans.  The original piece, in entirety, can be found in our 2018 Seawind Cruising Club Magazine.   Download a copy here .

Of the numerous benefits of owning a catamaran, one which simply cannot be overlooked is the control advantages offered with a dual engine setup as found in most modern cruising catamarans.  And while the redundancy of twin engines is a huge bonus for any serious sailor, you simply have to admire the maneuvering possibilities offered in this simple setup.

Turning in Tight Quarters.

Turning in Tight Quarters

When the need arises you can turn your catamaran in a 360 degree spin within its own boat length. When entering a crowded marina at slow speeds, hold the rudders on center and use the engines to steer the boat through to the boats berth. To turn to Starboard, apply more throttle to the Port engine and vise versa (again, resisting any urge to touch the rudders). To perform a hard turn to Port, increase the Starboard throttle forward and push the Port throttle into reverse.

Pushing Off.

Pushing Off

You’re berthed with your Port side-to and have boats tightly packed in front and behind. You are going to need to swing the bow out, clear of the boat ahead before motoring away from the marina. To do this, ensure you have a good fender tied off your rear quarter, you are going to use this to pivot the boar away from the dock. First push the Port throttle into forward at low speed and then engage the Starboard throttle in reverse at a low-medium throttle. Adjust both throttles back and forth to balance the boat in its static position while the bows pull away from the dock. If you are not confident in your abilities to do this unaided, wrap a spring line from the aft cleat to the dock and then back to the boat. Adjust this to prevent the boat from travelling backward and then release once the bow is clear of the boat ahead.

When entering a slip at your marina, the best way by far is to back the cat into the slip rather than entering bow first. On a Seawind the steering station is slightly aft, and outboard which provides better visibility when backing in. You also have twin helms and if dual controls are optioned, favor the side closest to the dock as it is important to keep a close eye on the distance between you and the dock. In tight quarters drive the boat along the pens as you approach your berth then as you would when reverse parking a car turn the bows away from the slip. It is best to then bring the boat to a complete or near stop before engaging in the reverse maneuver. Put the engines into reverse applying more throttle to the side furthest from the dock. Ensure your fenders are out and dock lines prepared. Slowly back the boat into the slip until you can throw your stern line to shore crew or loop onto the aft dock bollard yourself. Be sure to disengage the throttle before doing so and ensure the boat has come to a stop. You can then attach a bow line and shut down both engines.

Through steady throttle control you can actually maneuver your catamaran sideways off a dock. The boat will shuffle sideways crab-like. To start, follow the same steps as if you were pushing off, as described in the previous section. Next, rather than engaging both engines in forward you will reverse the throttle orientation and continue to alternate the throttles from (Port-forward / Starboard– reverse) to (Starboard- forward / Port- reverse) combinations applying more throttle to the side furthest from the intended turn direction.  In doing so, you will move the bow outward in one movement and the transom outward in the other and so on.

Here’s the CATAMARAN DOCKING video that walk you through each step slowly:

For more information, please click here:

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• ClubSeaRay.com Message Boards
• General Discussion

Docking a Twin Stern Drive

• Thread starter Uplate
• Start date Dec 23, 2008

• Dec 23, 2008

First of all, I would like to thank all of you other owners of these twin stern drives for the advice on trimming in another thread. I have learned a lot from this. So can we discuss docking? Probably as most of you, I back into the slip. I have tried two different methods of manuevering around the dock. 1. Outdrives left in neutral position and operate similar to a v drive set up. Controlling props only via transmission. I find this somewhat limited in precise control. 2. A combination of steering outdrives and also using differential action on the controls. I find this highly manueverable, but get confused with current postion of outdrives. I have seen meters that go into the steering hub that show the angle and also have been suggested a thin line of tape on "top Dead Center" on the steering wheel. Would like to hear how you other Sterndrivers pilot/learned yours around the dock. Maybe having bought V drives would have made things simpler:huh:  

• Dec 24, 2008

Hello Mike- Merry Christmas... I personally have always used option 1. I find the spot where both drives are straight and then use the transmissions to adjust from there. I have tried spinning the wheel for adjustments but it always confused me even after 600 running hours and 300+ dockings! Stuart  

Active Member

I mainly use option 1 - I do use the wheel for small inputs but it is very easy to lose your position.  

Option 2 for me....I found that I have more control of the boat with this method. To back to port, about a half to 3/4 turn of the wheel to port, then shift the stbd drive to reverse while the port is in N (no throttle, just at idle) I don't leave the stbd drive in R for very long, just enough to get the bow and stern to align with the slip. It may take a couple of shifts to R with the stbd drive. Once things are in line, I straighten the wheel (as close to center as possible) and use the port drive to cancel any bow swing the boat may have from using the stbd drive while backing with the wheel turned to port. I keep track of how the drives are positioned by watching the response to the stern while backing down on the slip. After you do it 100's of times, you get on to it. As I understand, the meter that goes in the hub only works if the steering wheel is in a verticle position. The NASCAR tape method may not work because the wheel can turn multiple rounds resulting in a tape position that still has the drive turned. I just keep track of where center is by going hard over to one side then count back the turns needed to center.  

I use a combination of 1-pivoting and 2-steering when docking. While docking, option 1 is for very slight and precise maneuvering and when you need to control the position of your bow within a confined area. Obviously pivoting a V-Drive is easier than sterns. Also, I docked a friends boat with Twin-Bravo IIIs and they really grab/bite beautifully and would probably be using "transmission" only with his setup. I have found that the Twin Alphas 4.3 need a bit of steering control at least with our 280. Just shifting into gear to pivot is certainly not going to get you into position quickly especially with any wind. To get them to grab a bit better, you almost need to use throttle outside of just idle forward/reverse. Unfortunately, the controls just aren't ergonomically setup for this (single lever throttles vs. dual lever) and the throttle response isn't as exact as I would like. I would love for Merc to come up with a way to add DTS (Digital Throttle) on 4.3s. Hope this helps.  

StressAweigh

I use option 1 all the time. In fact most of the time I take the boat all the way out of the marina with out touching the wheel.  

Well-Known Member

Probably no wrong answer to this one, unless it was inboards, in which case you dont touch the wheel. With outdrives at least you have directional thrust so using the wheel will accomplish something, if you can keep track of where the wheel is. To each his own.  

Thanks everybody for taking the time to share your techniques. I have been trying #1 mostly, but do need to grab the wheel now and then. Agree that the Nascar tape would only work when not going past 360. I am not sure howm many revs it takes to go from neutral to full lock on on side. I will check this out next time I am out on the boat. Hopefully by the time it gets crazy next summer I will have all of this dialed in! Merry Christmas.  

My 310 has only 3 turns from lock to lock. I simply go hard over and 1.5 turns back to center. Most of the time I don't use the wheel. The pivot point is just ahead of the swim platform. This helps to swing the bow a bit like a poors man's thruster. If I need to swing the stern, I use the wheel.  

I hear many say 'If you have V-drives, don't touch the wheel', and while this may be true for most conditions, it's not true all of the time. There are plenty of times where using the rudder will pull the stern of the boat more quickly towards or away from the dock vs. just using the controls. If you were leaving the dock and needed to kick the stern out quickly, turn hard towards the dock, and put one stick in forward, and one in reverse. You will get much more response this way vs. without using rudder input. Concerning the sterndrive setup, again, use steering input. Why would you limit yourself if you have another 'tool in your bag' to help you in situations where you might need it? There's no reason not to. Doug  

I had the same setup on my 280. You can get a big shot in the right direction by turning the wheel (drives), so why wouldn't you use them? Doesn't help much backing, however. I'd recommend counting the number of turns when you turn the wheel so you can get back to center easily. Leaving the marina, I would turn the wheel vs. turn by shifting to minimize the cycles on the shift cables. Like anything else, they won't last forever, so why shift excessively? As for never touching the wheel w.r.t. inboards, why not? The rudders with waterflow across them provide one more trick from your toolkit to kick the stern around. Back to Christmas...  

You only need to try steering into a fairway or slip once with a larger Searay (esp one with lotsa wind resistance) with its wonderful prop pockets. After you exchange insurance information with all the boats you took out along the way, you will make a note to yourself to never touch the wheel again.  

rondds said: You only need to try steering into a fairway or slip once with a larger Searay (esp one with lotsa wind resistance) with its wonderful prop pockets. Click to expand...

Kameroo said: Leaving the marina, I would turn the wheel vs. turn by shifting to minimize the cycles on the shift cables. Like anything else, they won't last forever, so why shift excessively? quote] This is my take as well. I always use the wheel when leaving or returning to the marina. It is only when I approach my slip when I try Option 1. Click to expand...

Presentation

Uplate said: ....1. Outdrives left in neutral position and operate similar to a v drive set up. Controlling props only via transmission. Click to expand...

Turtlesboat

Minister of media.

not the pivot point again.  

After driving my 320 with v's and my dad's amberjack with bravo III's. With outdrives - it seems as if a touch of the wheel seems to help.  

• Dec 25, 2008

My method is, when approaching my slip from the last turn entering the area I make sure my wheal is straight. Then I only use throttles to back her in to the slip. However, when I leave the slip I help with the wheal to make sharp turn and swing the stern. In this case operating the wheal helps making the turn quicker and I don’t have to shift the gears too many times. I would suggest using option 1 as your basic technique. Then, as you get comfortable and know that you can back her is with out issues try experimenting with the wheal. This way if you get confused, you know that your plan “B” is the option 1 and you can use it if anything.  

With my outdrives, I normally dock parrellel to a bulkhead. Once I do my final spin towards home. . .I stop using the wheel. I have a very high success rate. Going backwards into slips. . the &$#@@ boat doesn't go straight! Going straight forward vs backwards have different wheel positions! Most annoying.  

I use method 1 most of the time, however some windy or fast current situations I use both, when using the steering I find small adj (1/2 to 3/4 turn ) works best for me. Throttle adjustments need to be gentle and smooth.:thumbsup:  

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Twin rudders good or bad ?

Discussion in ' Boat Design ' started by frank smith , Apr 28, 2013 .

frank smith Senior Member

On a shall draft boat twin rudders would make sense in order to open up the transom for an outboard and also give additional steerage with out he need for a kick up rudder . What would be the negative effects of such an arrangement? Frank  

messabout Senior Member

Frank I think that a shallow draft boat will be well advised to have kick up rudders. Shallow water and grounding go together all too often. Boats that sail with significant heel angles can profit with twin rudders particularly when the rudder shafts are angled. Some hot rod sailboats do use twins, inland lakes scows for example use angled twins along with angled dual centerboards. Twin rudders are standard on catamarans but not on trimarans. Twin engined powerboats use twin rudders so as to get the rudders into the prop slipstream. That is an advantage when maneuvering at slower speeds or stormy waters. Twin rudders add wetted surface and a certain amount of unnecessary drag when the boat is to be sailed or powered in a near upright attitude. Of course there are added complications in steering couplings.  

michael pierzga Senior Member

Everything good is a compromise. Twin rudders are exposed and prone to fouling. Twin rudders are twice as expensive.  

CDK retired engineer

Lack of information makes your question hard to answer. The propulsion system I make for my own boat involves 4 small rudders and 2 props. The tie bars and shafts are submerged, only the inner starboard shaft is longer and carries the steering arm. The rudders are in close proximity of the props, so they actually deflect the water flow when the steering angle exceeds 15 degrees. Under 15 degrees the rudders do change the course of the boat, but the reaction is too slow for a docking or emergency maneuver. If your boat has twin rudders far apart and a prop in the center you will not be satisfied with their performance.  

fredrosse USACE Steam

Twin Rudders on a Sidewheeler I have twin rudders on the sidewheeler, and they kick up if grounded, specifically to be in the wheel wash, and to minimize draft. The sidewheeler is difficult to dock, so the rudders can be folded up, and the flat bottom boat backed ashore. People can exit ashore without a dock, and nobody gets their feet wet.  

Attached Files:

Thunderanchors.jpg.

rwatson Senior Member

Of course, there are some boats that take advantage of this configuration, to provide outboard power and/or sail as desired  

OldMacStern.jpg

PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

The only advantage to twin rudders is, the ability to have them canted at an optimum angle, of course with the windward blade retracted. Most boats will have an ideal heel angle, so the boards are set at this. Some are adjustable (the cant angle), though this convolution isn't going to offer much more than a small fraction of a knot better ability.  

PAR said: ↑ The only advantage to twin rudders is, the ability to have them canted at an optimum angle, .... Click to expand...

Med_VOR120628_FARR_00021.jpg

Generally agreed on the addition of "performance", but I have an open transom, under belly rudder boat and the single rudder doesn't interfere with any shipboard or boarding operations. Redundancy is nice, but in the event of a failure, you're screwed on one tack with twins.  

Easy Rider Senior Member

Would a twin rudder arrangement w rudders just outboard of the prop wash result in greater efficiency due to usually not having prop wash pushing the rudders/boat "backwards"? While turning one rudder would be in the wash helping the turn in the usual way just not as much. I think larger and lower aspect rudders would probably be used eliminating some or much of the advantage but still the prop wash would not be hindering fwd progress.  

daiquiri Engineering and Design

Easy Rider said: ↑ Would a twin rudder arrangement w rudders just outboard of the prop wash result in greater efficiency due to usually not having prop wash pushing the rudders/boat "backwards"? Click to expand...

The modern speedsters need twin rudders because of their extra beam aft. A single rudder would have to be located very far forward to stay wet on a beamy stern boat  

I was thinking primarily of a of large sharpie , (roll eyes ," not another wing nut thinking about sharpies"). Yes, twin rudders would not need to be pivoting , could be transom mounted , and allow an outboard to be mounted. I occurs to me that a swim platform could be built in front conforming to the bottom of the hull, and still have the simplicity of transom mounting. The sharpie I am envisioning would have a long shallow keel. and twin rudders would allow it to sit upright, when the tide went out. So the main question is how detrimental to performance would they be in that application. As PAR points out it would be simple to hang a rudder under the transom, but it would need to be pivoting or retractable. Thus adding to complexity.  

The "performance" is given also by these practical aspects of everyday usage, not just by the hydrodynamic aspects. Since you are talking about sharpie boat, long keel, beachable and with an outboard motor, you are evidently not interested into competitive sailing. So I see no problems with mounting a twin rudder on your sharpie. Many racing sailboats use it, so imo your sharpie can use it as well.  

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Its possible if you are willing to accept the complexity and clutter of all that gear on the transom. I dont think its worth it  

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• Trawler Forum
• General Discussion

Walking a twin-screw boat sideways

• Thread starter ranger58sb
• Start date Sep 22, 2013
• Sep 22, 2013

Art said: Regarding Steering a Twin Screw: To properly know how to handle a forward or reverse moving twin screw boat without using helm-wheel steering, via alternating engines’ rpm and shift positions only, it simply takes experience/practice. In difference to single screw (although with a single screw bow and stern thrusters play well at very slow speeds - i.e. docking, near standstill) twin screw can be maneuvered quite well in forward or reverse via engines alone at nearly any speed... without using helm-wheel steering... as long as rudders are maintained in straight position during the forward or reverse travel. Rudders, as well as per engine alternate rpm and shift positions do come into play on twins when moving boat directly sideways from a standstill, while not trying to simultaneously attempt forward or reverse travel – see #3. 1. At higher speeds the rpm allowed per each engine can alter course as needed as well as maintain the course needed... even for long periods of forward travel if necessary. 2. At very low rpm (docking, slow canal travel and the like) carefully actuated per engine shift positions in coordination with their rpm can keep boat placed where desired or maneuvered into positions desired. 3. For making a standstill twin screw boat to move directly sideways to starboard or port (without thrusters)... the following works well: “Directly-Sideways” Movement/Handling of Twin Screw Boat Move boat sideways to port (opposite items for starboard) - Turn rudders 80% +/- to starboard - Place starboard in forward and port in reverse - Starboard kept at idle rpm / Port approx 150 rpm higher Once rudders in position with engines in the correct gear at idle rpm quickly adjust direction desired engine rpm - higher equivalent rpm for both engines with same %age difference = faster sideways motion – to a point – it can get hairy, go slow! Correction can become a bitch if boat gets moving sideways at too quick a speed... especially in close quarters! Also, depending on rudder size and prop size the numbers mentioned may need to be adjusted. However, the general mechanical/physics properties of thrust and water flow remain the same for described sideways travel. Take it slow: Gently move a boat laterally. Be careful to not get boat moving too quickly as stopping sideways motion takes considerably more rpm, shift, and steerage adjustment time than simply forward or reverse or circular rotation motion adjustments. Adjust rudder and shift/throttle controls as needed for current and wind conditions to move latterly away from dock. Practice makes perfect. I recommend practice in a completely open area... at least at first! Click to expand...

Lock the wheel over to the opposite direction you wish to move the boat. This method even works even on my 36' Nova with a 4' keel and lots of windage.  

Don't expect to overcome much wind or current. This will vary from boat to boat, and is related to the amount of rudder exposed to your prop wash. You are using prop wash on the rudder from the engine in forward to push the stern over, and this sideways force must be greater than the sideways force created by the engine in reverse walking the stern in the opposite direction. With the amount of throttle roughly balanced, if your rudders are too small,or not "hard over", that driving force will not be enough, and when you increase power on that side, you will have an excess of forward motion,that will need to be counteracted with additional reverse on the other side. It is a sometimes tough balancing act, which is always easier in calm conditions. When you get practiced, folks on the dock will look for your "thrusters" and will wonder out loud why your thrusters don't make the usual rude growling noises they have become used to hearing.  

If you really want to walk a bigger twin perfectly sideways with negligible fore or aft movement, get a bow thruster. With big winds and currents it really helps.  

sunchaser said: If you really want to walk a bigger twin perfectly sideways with negligible fore or aft movement, get a bow thruster. With big winds and currents it really helps. Click to expand...

koliver said: Don't expect to overcome much wind or current. This will vary from boat to boat, and is related to the amount of rudder exposed to your prop wash. You are using prop wash on the rudder from the engine in forward to push the stern over, and this sideways force must be greater than the sideways force created by the engine in reverse walking the stern in the opposite direction. With the amount of throttle roughly balanced, if your rudders are too small,or not "hard over", that driving force will not be enough, and when you increase power on that side, you will have an excess of forward motion,that will need to be counteracted with additional reverse on the other side. It is a sometimes tough balancing act, which is always easier in calm conditions. When you get practiced, folks on the dock will look for your "thrusters" and will wonder out loud why your thrusters don't make the usual rude growling noises they have become used to hearing. Click to expand...

Scraping Paint

(Chris-- Sent you a PM on this theory).  

This system definetly does work ..... on some boats ! Hull form, including keel length and depth, propeller pitch, rudder size, maximum rudder angle all make a difference. Throw in some windage, wind and current and it complicates matters quickly.  

Marin said: (Chris-- Sent you a PM on this theory). Click to expand...

ranger42c said: Umm... I'm a little puzzled why private? And then why announce it? -Chris Click to expand...

hollywood8118

beachbum29 said: He no longer posts... My Cruisers does a nice job when it's not blowing. Click to expand...

River Cruiser

I used to walk our 24' express cruiser sideways, involved a lot of wheel spinning & shifting.  

If I got a thruster I wouldn't be able to face the "old salts" in our club who say: "thrusters are for people who can't handle a boat."  

Senior Member

ancora said: If I got a thruster I wouldn't be able to face the "old salts" in our club who say: "thrusters are for people who can't handle a boat." Click to expand...

Like others have said, different boats react to this differently. I've been able to do this a couple of times facing into the current and not fighting too much crosswind. Remove the head current or add a bit of crosswind and all bets are off.  

A purist after me own heart.  

hollywood8118 said: It is actually the ghost of Marin... HOLLYWOOD Click to expand...

• Sep 23, 2013

Sailor of Fortune

Usually some fwd momentum helps. For a flank (walk) to port, come in slow with a little bit of fwd creep, turn the helm hard to STBD. as the turn starts to STBD, back the port engine and leave the stbd engine in fwd. It takes practice and there is a balancing act of helm and clutches. BE Patient! give the vsl time to react. YMMV  

I'm glad to hear it's probably a sometime thing. I've been occasionally trying movements like this since about 2000 after we moved from our single diesel (with no thruster)... in two different twin screw boats... with underwhelming results. We've always had better results using a spring line... -Chris  

ranger42c said: I'm glad to hear it's probably a sometime thing. I've been occasionally trying movements like this since about 2000 after we moved from our single diesel (with no thruster)... in two different twin screw boats... with underwhelming results. We've always had better results using a spring line... -Chris Click to expand...

Art said: My recommendation is go to a calm location with plenty open space and practice, practice, practice. I bet you will find what rudder positions and per engine rpm work best for you and your boat to move sideways, in either direction. It's not rocket science, just assertive boat piloting! Good Luck! Click to expand...

ranger42c said: Heh... not like I haven't done that practice thing. For 20 years or so, several straight shaft boats. This one has simply eluded me. So far (maybe). -Chris Click to expand...

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I just choose the "falling leaf" method. It does require you to manage your forward motion/way but it is simpler and seems more natural as I come from a single with bow thruster...which is pretty much what you have to do with a single/thruster set up. Just approach the dock with a little bit of way and at a 45 degree angle. Use the "outter" engine(furthest from dock) to erase your way and thusly bring the bow away from the dock and the stern towards it. Some times that is all you need if you time it right and have the right amount of speed and the boat will go right up to the dock...sometimes at a slightly alarming rate. If that does not do it, then in and out of forward and reverse until you get the boat alongside....the boat will appear like a "falling leaf". Which engine you use is determined by how much movement you need in the bow or stern and if you need to put way on or take it off. I'm not sure i am making any sense here....hard to explain...easy on the boat though. I think walking a twin sideways with consistent regularity is somewhat of a myth. Like people have said, the conditions have to be right.  

Art said: Yo, ranger I don't mean to imply that you haven't tried, although I wasn't aware of your 20 yrs successful efforts with other boats... until this post. It could be that location/size/configurations of your current boat's rudders, props, and keel (in combination with the boat's bottom shape – maybe??) might simply make it really difficult to move her sideways via twins. Perhaps bow, stern or a combination of thrusters is in order for your boat?? And, as you mentioned in earlier post - spring lines work well too! My take on the lateral movement capabilities via twin screw apparatus adjustments is that the screws make it easier the wider apart they are located and rudders make it easier when they are reasonably large. Have you front, back, and side pictures of the running gear while boat is on the hard? Click to expand...

Baker said: I just choose the "falling leaf" method. It does require you to manage your forward motion/way but it is simpler and seems more natural as I come from a single with bow thruster...which is pretty much what you have to do with a single/thruster set up. Just approach the dock with a little bit of way and at a 45 degree angle. Use the "outter" engine(furthest from dock) to erase your way and thusly bring the bow away from the dock and the stern towards it. Some times that is all you need if you time it right and have the right amount of speed and the boat will go right up to the dock...sometimes at a slightly alarming rate. If that does not do it, then in and out of forward and reverse until you get the boat alongside....the boat will appear like a "falling leaf". Which engine you use is determined by how much movement you need in the bow or stern and if you need to put way on or take it off. I'm not sure i am making any sense here....hard to explain...easy on the boat though. I think walking a twin sideways with consistent regularity is somewhat of a myth. Like people have said, the conditions have to be right. Click to expand...

Baker said: ....the boat will appear like a "falling leaf". Which engine you use is determined by how much movement you need in the bow or stern and if you need to put way on or take it off. I'm not sure i am making any sense here....hard to explain...easy on the boat though. Click to expand...

Baker said: I just choose the "falling leaf" method. Just approach the dock with a little bit of way and at a 45 degree angle. Use the "outter" engine(furthest from dock) to erase your way and thusly bring the bow away from the dock and the stern towards it. Some times that is all you need if you time it right and have the right amount of speed and the boat will go right up to the dock...sometimes at a slightly alarming rate. If that does not do it, then in and out of forward and reverse until you get the boat alongside....the boat will appear like a "falling leaf". Which engine you use is determined by how much movement you need in the bow or stern and if you need to put way on or take it off. I'm not sure i am making any sense here....hard to explain...easy on the boat though. I think walking a twin sideways with consistent regularity is somewhat of a myth. Like people have said, the conditions have to be right. Click to expand...

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> > Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. 05-09-2020, 07:00   helm/rudder on the 37 vs dual helm/rudder on the 38. Any benefits or drawbacks to consider? 05-09-2020, 08:01   Boat: a sailing boat , you get help from prop flow over the . When there are two rudders and the prop is one, you get no such help. When there are two wheels and the transom is open, you can access and without passing round the , which is some factor if you are always stern-to. Mind this is often marred by a center table in the . b. 05-09-2020, 08:24   Boat: Pearson 367 I can see the advantage of dual and rudder. If you are just on a lake, it's overkill. 06-09-2020, 11:04   Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 38.1 06-09-2020, 11:10   I've been on need either a bow thruster or plenty of speed to get you into the . If you have a thruster, center the and us the BT to steer. You don't need a lot of speed but probably a little more than you think. Without a BT then you need speed before the rudders grip and for this you will need practice. If you have helm mounted control it makes it easier as yo don't have to reach down. It's not a problem either way. Just takes practice and nerve. in a marina your without prop wash? Is a bow thruster a must have for a twin rudder sailboat?? I don’t want to highjack the OP, but Jimmy we both are in the same situation. I’ve looked at the 37 and the 38.1. I’m absolutely wanting the 38.1, but that’s not over the twin rudder and steering wheels. It’s over a lot of other things too. I’ll be weeks at time doing coastal sailing. Good luck - if you buy please make a post. And a bump for any answers to the pertaining questions. 06-09-2020, 11:19   Boat: Dufour 310 and rudder boat. 310GL I have owned this boat for 2 years and had several single rudder upto 40' The advantages are; _ The boat wont roundup as there is always 1 rudder in the - Vision is better - Responsive to the wheel - Space in the cockpit - Access really good. - Single handing improved - Backing up works well The downsides - chance of fouling - more drag downwind - more to go wrong I don't miss prop wash Overall i like it. 06-09-2020, 11:26   Boat: a sailing boat 06-09-2020, 11:41   Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 38.1 06-09-2020, 11:56   Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 35.1 boat is twin rudders, twin wheels, and sail drive. This setup is much easier to handle than a traditional single rudder, single wheel, and shaft drive. Maneuvering at low speed is excellent. Not only do I not miss prop walk and prop wash, I don't want either in a boat. Prop walk may be great IF it rotates your boat in the direction needed. Prop wash is nice, but the twin rudders grab soon enough that it is not a loss. In reverse the boat handles like a sportscar. Twin wheels make the cockpit much more open. My boat has a cockpit table with handholds on either end, making moving about the cockpit safe when the waters are agitated. No bow thruster needed, at least in the OC 35.1. I know a couple with the OC 38.1 with no bow thruster and they don't seem to have issues. 06-09-2020, 12:28   Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 38.1 06-09-2020, 13:55   Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283 . The solution was to locate two rudders at about the optimum heel angle and at the point that would still be in the water. Older skinny transom boats such as mine would have no need for a second rudder. I do rely on prop wash to maneuver our big heavy beast in close quarters. Depending on how dual helm and rudder is executed, it can be an installed spare. If there is too much sharing the whole thing could fail as a unit. 06-09-2020, 14:07   Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 38.1 06-09-2020, 14:13   Boat: Catalina 470 etc. Ocean sailing I'd prefer twin rudders, better in big swells particularly when surfing, the leeward rudder grips better as you start to heel or round up abit. Modern design is often faster and they surf more, twin rudders are a natural evolution of modern design. I have twin wheel single rudder. My twin wheels give me steering cable redundancy. 06-09-2020, 19:29   Boat: Northstar 80/20 , but A) they're made of stronger materials nowadays, and B) having two rudders reduces the chance that you'll have both of them fail or be sheared off. If you're not (and if you ARE , you'll want the First, not the Oceanis), the twin rudders won't give you a big performance boost, but I'd still have them for redundancy. 06-09-2020, 19:32   Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34 , Thread Tools Rate This Thread : Posting Rules post new threads post replies post attachments edit your posts is are code is are are are Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post Alecadi Engines and Propulsion Systems 48 05-11-2019 16:01 S/V Alchemy Engines and Propulsion Systems 5 18-04-2018 11:29 Campbellcruiser Engines and Propulsion Systems 9 22-07-2015 17:15 MV WOLFPACK Marine Electronics 0 12-04-2014 06:45 gbanker Monohull Sailboats 17 11-11-2008 03:40 No Threads to Display. - - - - - - - Privacy Guaranteed - your email is never shared with anyone, opt out any time. 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I am looking for the best driving techniques for docking her. Some suggest using only the forward and reverse gears of each engine to manuver the boat without turning the steering wheel. Makes some sense to me, but old habits are hard to break. Anyone have any thoughts?   Aug 16, 2008 Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat The major maneuvering benefit of a twin engine boat is the ability to drive without using the rudders. Practice it, once you're good at it you'll be able to turn the boat 360 degrees in its own length, dock backward, and pull all sorts of tricks you'd need a bow thruster or an IPS drive for otherwise. Definitely, definitely learn to drive with two screws. Erik   tashasdaddy Honorary moderator emeritus. Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat 1st question, outboards, inboard outboards, or full inboard? makes a big difference. as they all control differently. 1st rule is speed. do not approach something faster than you want to hit it. boats do not have brakes, do not count on reverse as a brake.   Chief Petty Officer Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat Tasahadaaddy, how is the technique different between I/O and straight inboards?   Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat inboards have straight thrust, and uses the rudder to steer, in reverse it is very inefficient. i/o's and outboards can have a directional thrust, as you turn the wheel.   Petty Officer 2nd Class Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat To answer your question, the center of propulsion makes a huge difference, on a straight inboard the propulsion is closer to the center of the boat. If you put one in foward and the other in reverse, you will turn in a closer circle than with an i/o or outboard, this being due to the fact that these motors are to one end of the vessel. You should use the gears to manuver any vessel with twin motors, and only use the throttle when wind and other circumstances not forseen come into play.   Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat Gsyfishy, I assume when you say 'use the gears" to manuver the boat you mean keep the throttle at idle speed. The I/Os have the gears and throttle incorporated into the same control unlike true inboard twins. I am moving up from a single I/O to twin I/Os. I understand you should keep the steering wheel in the center position when using the twin props to control the boat. Is there a particular technique that works best when backing into a slip? For example, if I am backing in and want the stern to go towards starboard should I put the starboard engine in neutral and port in reverse? The other option is starboard forward, port reverse but I assume this will rotate the stern towards starboard in place but not go backwards. I guess the final option is using the later technique to line the stern up and put both motors in reverse to back in. I should have my new boat this week so that I will start practicing but knowing a strategy in advance might help. Thanks   jay_merrill Vice admiral. Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat When manuevering a twin engine boat with use of forward/reverse on the two engines, remember that the boat will tend to rotate around the props. Think of a transverse line through the boat, in the location of the props, as a "fulcrum" or pivot point. Use of differential power this way will move the bow of the boat, more than the stern (especially with outboards & I/Os), unless you have the bow tied off to the dock. For example, if you need to "parallel park" the boat along a dock to the port side, you can nose the boat in at an angle, take a turn around a cleat or post on the dock with a line, and then shift the port engine into forward and the starboard engine into reverse. That will swing the stern of the boat into the spot. As you do this, the bow of the boat will need to come off of the dock a bit, so be ready to provide some slack in the line.   Lieutenant Commander Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat I'm talkin' straight-shaft inboards here.... but when I was learning, one of the best tips I got was to forget the wheel and picture the shifters as a pair of parenthesis- like this: ( ). The shifters will move the boat in that direction (example- port shifter forward, boat moves forward and right). This assumes no other forces are present (wind/ current) but it works for me 90% of the time. For most recreatonal inboard vessels the rudders are too small to influence the boat's motion significantly at idle speeds, BUT steering can be a useful docking tool with more advanced training. Remember that rudders only work when water is flowing past them.   489 IMAGES Docking with Twin Rudders Docking with Twin Rudders Docking a Sailboat with Dual Rudders in Reverse Docking with Twin Rudders Docking with Twin Rudders Docking with Twin Rudders COMMENTS Docking with Twin Rudders Sep 24, 2020. Maneuvering a twin-rudder boat like this Beneteau Oceanise 30.1 requires a slightly different mindset. Photo courtesy of courtesy of Beneteau. Twin-rudder raceboats have been with us since the mid-1980s. In the last 10 years or so, they've also become increasingly popular aboard cruising boats, including those available for charter. Docking a Dual Rudder Sailboat Dual Rudder Challenges. Twin rudders depend on the momentum of the boat for steerage. In other words, when the boat is stopped, hydrostatic pressure on the rudders is not established until the boat starts moving through the water. There is no effect of "prop wash" (the flow of water over the rudder produced by the spinning propeller). Tips for docking dual rudder boats I have been sailing a single rudder sailboat and have experience with single prop trawlers or other twin MYs but this will be my first go around docking a twin rudder sailboat into a floating single slip. There are a couple videos online about docking these but curious if the group here has any tips or videos to follow. Seems like reversing in may have more movement than going now first but ... Docking a Sailboat with Dual Rudders in Reverse With dual rudders, you can not use thrust over the rudder so instead, you need to use force/moments. Watch how we bring the boat to the dock easily. This and... How to Dock Twin Rudder Boat With No Prop Wash and Prop Walk In this video, I'll discuss how to single-handed dock and undock twin-rudder boat with no Prop Walk and no Prop Wash. Previously I made a few videos talking ... Docking a Dual Rudder Sailboat in Forward Watch how we bring the boat to the dock easily. This and... With dual rudders, you can not use thrust over the rudder so instead, you need to use force/moments. Watch how we bring the boat to the ... Q&A, Coming Alongside (Docking) With Twin Rudders Answer: Twin-rudder boats seem to be ever more common and this question has come up several times in the comments, so I'm going to tackle it in a short Q&A chapter. As we discussed earlier in this Online Book, the key to getting alongside in good order is using prop walk and prop wash to move the stern around with very little forward motion. Dual Rudder: Maneuvering Under Power When sailing, a dual rudder configuration offers several advantages over a single rudder. One of the main benefits is the increased rudder surface area in the water, which enhances maneuverability, control, and reduces the tendency to round up into the wind when hit by a gust. Additionally, it can improve the boat's ability to sail upwind. Docking ideas for twin rudder single prop... 38-footer I'm getting used to, beamy stern, twin rudders, single right-hand prop, with very little prop-walk effect. Berth is port-side to, on a regular dock face, largish powerboat moored astern, smaller sailboat forward, not a lot of extra room to maneuver in. Without much prop walk, and with no sideways "kick" from rudders since they aren't near the prop, I've been setting the port shoulder ... Twin rudder docking pro tips? : r/sailing Keep the boat going 2kts, do the turn incrementally. First, aim at the boat at the end of the dock. As the bow reaches a quarter of the way into the slip laterally, turn a bit more so you're aiming at the midpoint of the dock. When the bow is just past the lateral midpoint of the slip, then finish the turn. Your crew should be able to step off ... Tips for docking dual rudder boats I've gone from Beneteau First 25 (dual rudder) to Beneteau 31 (single) to Beneteau 35.1 (dual) to now Beneteau 41.1 (single)… I think your 349 is a sister ship to the 35.1 — here's my tips: 1) A rudder is not a rudder.The dual outboard canted rudders can be half the length/depth of a single centered deep spade rudder and they just act differently because they are canted well outboard ... Twin Engine Stern-In Docking A. When nearing your slip, try to plan your approach so that wind and current will work with you, bringing the boat to the dock. Pull a little past your slip and then begin backing with both engines (always with your rudder amidships). B. As you near the point that you need to pivot, pull the starboard engine in reverse and slide the port ... Docking a Handicapped Twin-Screw 1. In this docking scenario, a twin-inboard vessel is hobbling into the marina with its starboard engine down. The port engine's prop turns left-handed in forward, meaning the boat's stern will naturally walk to port, pulling the bow to starboard. Reverse gears and this so-called prop walk will kick the stern to starboard and the bow to port. The Boat Docker Posted on November 22, 2022 by boatdocker. This simulator is designed to train you to dock your twin engine or single I/O power boat before you actually try it in the water! To get started, click above on "Run Simulator.". Thanks for all the feedback! We are continuously updating the simulator to make it a more effective tool. CRUISING TIPS: Docking And while the redundancy of twin engines is a huge bonus for any serious sailor, you simply have to admire the maneuvering possibilities offered in this simple setup. ... hold the rudders on center and use the engines to steer the boat through to the boats berth. To turn to Starboard, apply more throttle to the Port engine and vise versa (again ... Docking a Twin Stern Drive 2007 310 SeaRay DA. Kohler. Engines. Twin 6.2 MPI Bravo III. I use a combination of 1-pivoting and 2-steering when docking. While docking, option 1 is for very slight and precise maneuvering and when you need to control the position of your bow within a confined area. Obviously pivoting a V-Drive is easier than sterns. Tips for docking dual rudder boats A fatter (round) fender is preferred because of the flair of topsides at the stern on most boats • Rudder centered; apply reverse power; bow is supposed to swing out • When bow is out 45 degrees or so, release the stern spring line and power forward away from the dock • This technique does work with a dual rudder boat; it's not ... Twin rudders good or bad ? Twin Rudders on a Sidewheeler I have twin rudders on the sidewheeler, and they kick up if grounded, specifically to be in the wheel wash, and to minimize draft. The sidewheeler is difficult to dock, so the rudders can be folded up, and the flat bottom boat backed ashore. People can exit ashore without a dock, and nobody gets their feet wet. Docking with twin I/Os 249. May 23, 2012. #1. Just bought a new boat, 2000 Maxum 3000scr. Beautiful, or at least until time to dock it. I graduated from a single I/O to the twin I/Os, and so far I'm on the wrong side of the learning curve. I know that with twin inboards, people say to leave the wheel alone, and do it all with the transmissions. Walking a twin-screw boat sideways Regarding Steering a Twin Screw: To properly know how to handle a forward or reverse moving twin screw boat without using helm-wheel steering, via alternating engines' rpm and shift positions only, it simply takes experience/practice. In difference to single screw (although with a single screw bow and stern thrusters play well at very slow speeds - i.e. docking, near standstill) twin screw ... Boat Handling Docking a Single Screw DOCKING A SINGLE SCREW. Whether you operate a sailboat or powerboat, mastering the art of maneuvering your boat in close quarters makes the last 30.4m (100') of any journey less stressful and more predictable. A professional skipper discusses the inter-relationship of the propeller and rudder and provides drills you can do with your boat. Single or dual rudder? How well do twin rudder systems work in a marina docking your boat without prop wash? Is a bow thruster a must have for a twin rudder sailboat?? I don't want to highjack the OP, but Jimmy we both are in the same situation. I've looked at the 37 and the 38.1. I'm absolutely wanting the 38.1, but that's not over the twin rudder and ... Docking A Twin Engine Boat Aug 16, 2008. #2. Re: Docking A Twin Engine Boat. The major maneuvering benefit of a twin engine boat is the ability to drive without using the rudders. Practice it, once you're good at it you'll be able to turn the boat 360 degrees in its own length, dock backward, and pull all sorts of tricks you'd need a bow thruster or an IPS drive for ... catamaran gulet motorboat powerboat riverboat sailboat trimaran yacht